The first season of The Acolyte may have come to a close last month, but we’re not done celebrating Leslye Headland’s brilliant series. Following the finale, I had the opportunity to speak with director Hanelle Culpepper, who directed “Teach/Corrupt” and “The Acolyte,” which delivered on the wholly unexpected (and long-overdue) romantic tension between Osha (Amandla Stenberg) and The Stranger (Manny Jacinto).
Not only did Hanelle Culpepper direct two of the most-talked about episodes of The Acolyte, but she made history with the series. Culpepper is the first director to direct for both Star Wars and Star Trek television series, which is a remarkable milestone for any director to make, but all the more profound of an achievement for an incredibly talented Black woman who is paving the way in an industry that has, historically, been dominated by white men. Prior to The Acolyte, Culpepper directed the first three episodes of Star Trek: Picard Season 1, kick-starting Sir Patrick Stewart’s return to the franchise; and before that, she directed three episodes of Star Trek: Discovery.
During our conversation about Episode 6 and Episode 8 of The Acolyte, Culpepper spoke about the movies and series that influenced her episodes, directing the incredible action sequences in the finale, what the kiss between Osha and The Stranger would’ve looked like, and so much more. You can read the full interview below.
COLLIDER: I am so excited to talk with you about your two episodes. I’ve spoken with Leslye [Headland] so much about them that I’ve been dying to get to hear your directorial vision for both of these episodes. First of all, congratulations on getting to direct Star Wars. That’s incredible.
HANELLE CULPEPPER: Thank you. Yeah, that was a dream come true.
I’m such a huge fan of Star Trek and Star Wars, and I have to really tip my hat to you that you’ve gotten to play with both of those franchises, which is just so cool. A question that I love to ask people who are involved with sci-fi franchises is what was your first introduction to sci-fi, and how has that influenced your work today?
CULPEPPER: I’m not completely sure if this was the first, but what I do remember so clearly is seeing Disney’s The Black Hole at the drive-in theater. It was a double feature, so Logan’s Run was the second feature, and I saw both of those. I was very young. We were there for Black Hole and stayed for Logan’s Run, so Logan’s Run definitely kind of went over my head a bit. I think I actually may have fallen asleep. But that is what may have been the first thing, I’d have to check the dates, but that’s what comes to mind.
Oh, I love that. I know for actors auditioning for something like Star Wars, everything is cloaked in secrecy. Is that process the same for directors? Did you know that you were being asked to work on Star Wars, or was it a secret code name?
CULPEPPER: No, I don’t know how it is for most shows, but I did know that I was meeting on Star Wars from the get-go, and the same with Star Trek. There are certain things with the scripts that you get where certain parts could be redacted or some of the names are not the real names, and that’s really more to help with any potential leaks. It makes it a little bit more challenging to keep it all straight when some of it is hidden, but I did know that I was meeting on Star Wars.
Hanelle Culpepper’s Star Wars Journey Began in a Line For Star Wars
Very good. When I was looking at your IMDB to familiarize myself with your entire career, I noticed How to Stand in Line for Star Wars as one of your early directorial projects. Was it like a pinch-me moment to come full circle and to have worked on something that was tangentially connected to Star Wars and then actually be on a Star Wars set directing?
CULPEPPER: Yeah, it was. I actually did a fun post about it on my Instagram account. It was a full circle moment. What was so great at that time is, I actually really enjoyed meeting the superfans, as I call them, because they went through so much to see that, and I love that excitement that we all shared and the joy. It was really something special to capture. I think I called it a “war,” and I put that in quotes, but there was the Westwood faction and the Hollywood faction, and they would talk about how one line was better than the other and more organized. They had their own personalities, but we were all united in this absolute love for what George Lucas had created. So, it was very cool to now be a part of that and to have contributed to that. I remember when I saw Episode 6 when it aired, and that first moment came out with my name in that iconic font on the iconic screen, and I honestly almost got teary-eyed. [Laughs] It was just such a thrill and I did not expect to get emotional over that.
I can’t even imagine what that must feel like. Something I really liked hearing when I was talking with Leslye about the series is how collaborative it feels. There seemed to be a lot of in
put from the actors about their characters, a lot of input from the directors, and all of that. What was that give and take like for you on set?
CULPEPPER: It was a great environment to be a part of. There’s so much that Leslye has to keep straight as far as the canon, the world, and the story, what she wants to do, and how it should play out over the whole season, and hopefully in other seasons if we’re lucky enough to get one. She was always willing to take feedback and ideas. I think maybe on day two or three, we had this really great conversation where she took me through her creative vision of the show and what were the things that inspired her about Star Wars, and I was able to come in with ideas of what I wanna do with these episodes and themes and stuff like that and how that would influence how I would shoot it. So, that was a great conversation.
I felt like all along, whether it was interacting with her, whether it was interacting with Jason [Micallef] and Rob Bredow, I interacted with him when we were designing the space chase, or even with Jeff King and Rayne Roberts, the producers, it was always a back and forth of ideas. Ultimately, that’s the best space to be in where everybody feels they have creative input into what we’re doing. It’s something that I bring onto the set, as well. I come in with a vision and a plan, but I’m always open to better ideas, other ideas, whether it comes from the cast or if it comes from the camera operator, from the DP. Everybody should feel like they’re such an inspired part of this process.
I have to say, your two episodes have to be my favorite of the entire first season because they get to play with romance, which is something I personally love so much. It’s so funny when you think about Star Wars, it has this very iconic ship with Han and Leia, it has one of the most beautiful iconic love themes with Padmé and Anakin’s “Across the Stars,” and yet it doesn’t have a lot of romance, really, in the modern era of it. What was it like getting to play with that theme in particular in your episodes?
CULPEPPER: It was cool because Lesley told me that she wanted the scenes in the cave to really have that electricity that was in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. So, I really just took license with that, but also the cast was into having that chemistry. It was kind of letting them have the space to do their thing, let them have the time to really figure it all out, having some rehearsal ahead of time. It was actually fun, and when you’re in it, you’re not even thinking about the fact that “Hey, this isn’t done that often in Star Wars,” you’re just enjoying those performances and doing whatever you can to add to it and support what they are giving.
‘The Acolyte’ Had Many Influences, Including ‘Frozen’
I know Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a reference that Leslye’s talked about for that episode, but did you bring any of your own references from those kinds of connections and other movies, television shows, or even books that have lingered with you?
CULPEPPER: I had such a list of stuff, and also there were more things that she told me to look at, as well. I did go back and re-watch Andor because I just really love the way they told their story in the episodes, but also that intensity of that thrilling part of it all. I thought that was so important in Episode 8 to bring that to it. I wish I had my list. [Culpepper supplied her list after the interview: All of the Star Wars movies, in story order; Andor; The Mandolorian; Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; Coppola’s Bram Stoker’s Dracula; KillBill; The 36th Chamber of Shaolin; Fugitive; Cowboy Bebop, the animated version; and Frozen, yes Frozen, was one that Leslye wanted me to rewatch for the sister relationship].
It was so many different movies and different episodes and re-watching some of the other features that have been done in the Star Wars world, including some of the later stuff to kind of pick and choose to design the space fight for the space chase, and what were some of my favorite moments and taking that and bringing that to our space chase.
That’s something I love so much about filmmaking is that there is this visual shorthand that gets passed along through different mediums. You can see the echoes of other projects bleeding through, which I love about filmmaking. I know everybody’s talked about the kiss that almost was in the finale, and I’m sort of curious about what that moment could have looked like. I am personally very happy that you went with the handhold. I think that is so much more poignant, and a very beautiful visual to take in, but was it similar to what we ended up getting with them standing on the horizon or did it look different?
CULPEPPER: They were still standing on the horizon at that spot, so it would have visually been the same, you just would have had that kiss. It just didn’t feel right. It was scripted and I think it stayed in the script. I believe even the day we shot it, it was still there. But we all kind of knew—Leslye and I and the cast knew that it didn’t feel right. We had talked about it, and the great thing about Leslye is that she just allowed us to be free to decide what was gonna happen on that day. So, it wasn’t like we were told, “You must do it, or you must do this kiss.” [We were able to] symbolize this union without going into the kiss.
Hands have so much symbolism in Star Wars, as well. We’ve seen visual references to that in the past, so I thought it was just the perfect way to close up their storyline for Season 1.
CULPEPPER: Including the lightsaber, too, because that had been such a thing that had been passed between the two of them, taken and returned, and so that with the hand touch it… And that’s one of the great things about filmmaking for me is sometimes you don’t have the answer, but because of what’s happening on set, it’s just organic, and the cast just comes up with something, and it is so perfect. I live for those moments.
Another moment that I really love in the finale, that is a non-romantic moment, is the moment where The Stranger is pulled into, for lack of a better word, Osha’s mindspace, where she’s seeing what she thinks is Mae’s future, but it’s actually her future. I’m curious about the composition of that shot and getting that. There’s a real give and take there between the two of them and just the way that scene works, I keep going back to it when I think about that episode. What were the dynamics that you were playing with in getting it right? Were there other versions of it where it looked a little bit different? Because I just think that shot looks so cool the way it is.
CULPEPPER: There aren’t any other variations. We always land with that, and when he touches that, it brings him to his knees, and he is lower than her because she has more power, and really struggling to take that off. What we did play with is what he is experiencing when he is inside of that space, and he did several different things. All felt right and all were motivated by something genuine with what his character is going through, what Manny [Jacinto] is bringing to it, and so it was an abundance of riches. I’m not sure how Leslye ended up choosing the one she chose, but that’s where we experimented with what he was doing.
That’s interesting. I really love the way it ended up looking. There are so many things about the finale that I really love. Another shot in particular that always comes to mind is the mind-wiping scene and the way that that is framed hits, particularly The Stranger’s hand and over the twins. It’s just such a visually beautiful shot. How did you arrive at that kind of framing for that moment? Because there’s so much that I’ve seen, so many fans speculating, and just the emotions and the vibes of what was being poured into that moment.
CULPEPPER: I can tell you what I love is when information is given to you within the frame without needing to cut away. Obviously, we did turn around on him and I did do a shot where you’re on him, and it focuses on the hand. I also did one where I framed it where his hand wasn’t as much in front of them. But ultimately, that was the one I liked the best, with him right in front of it, and playing around with that focus, seeing them in the background hugging. You knew what was happening because you had been close with them. I thought that that was the more powerful and emotional gut-punch way of showing that moment.
How ‘The Acolyte’ Pulled Off that Incredible Season Finale Fight
It is. And then there’s a very nice throughline, too, then with the hands again, and the focus on hands that works so well. Something else about the finale that’s just incredible is the stunts and the lightsaber battles. It’s just incredible. I’ve said consistently that The Acolyte has had some of the best stunt work that I have ever seen in Star Wars, but I think the finale is really what takes the cake. What was the setup for that, particularly The Stranger and Sol fight? Because there’s a little bit of slow motion, there are a lot of different angles, a lot of different styles of fighting within that moment. What was that like for you on the day shooting that? How many days did it take to shoot?
CULPEPPER: I can’t tell you how many days it took to shoot it because there are the days that we shot our part, the main unit, and then the days that the second unit shot, as well. So, it took many days. I don’t even want to start to guess how many days it took, but it was quite a few. I do want to give credit to Chris Cowan, the second unit director, and Mark Ginther, who was the stunt coordinator. What was wonderful was this collaborative process. It really is that, as well. And so you see what’s on the page, but then it was nice to go to that space and walk around the set and then figure out, “Okay, what if I started it here, and I didn’t want to stay in a hallway? So let’s get them out to the courtyard. Oh, they can go out here and be on the bridge.” You start asking these crazy things.
This is something I learned working on S.W.A.T. because I remember we had a stunt scene, and it was fine, but it didn’t have the oomph that SWAT usually has. I set part of it on this upper level, and I thought to myself, “God, it’d be kind of cool if he fell down, but I’m sure that’s gonna cost a lot of money. I probably shouldn’t ask,” being a responsible director, and the producer is like, “Have you thought about maybe having him fall?” And I was like, “Yes I have. I would love to do that. Is that possible? And he’s like, “Yeah, ask for these things.” So, from that conversation, then I was like, “Oh, and is it possible for them to fall down?” And that was possible. I imagined them falling a certain way, Chris and Mark imagined them falling the way they came. When we did the stunt, they did the slow motion, and I was like, “I love the slow motion.”
I remember, I think it was James’ friend who came up with this because this bridge is made of metal, as the lightsabers are hitting the bridge, because I said we need to find a way for them to fall, what if we have all these sparks and that’s what causes the damage? So, it really is everybody starting to come together to add their ideas, and you take it all in and then figure out what works for the time and the budget, and you come up with something that’s so spectacular and much better than any individual thing. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Something else I really like about that fight is the way it parallels what’s happening between Osha and Mae inside the temple and their fight. I particularly love the shot that fades into it with the sabers and then their arms clashing. It’s just such a fun visual. What is it like working with an actor who is pulling double duty playing two different characters, and then you also have the stunt doubles mix into it getting that shot to work?
CULPEPPER: Amandla [Stenberg] worked her butt off, and I don’t even know if the audience can appreciate how much she had to work. In my episodes, there was such deep emotional work to be done, and that’s just exhausting and takes so much out of an actor when you’re not phoning it in, when you’re really feeling it deeply. So, to do that on both sides and to have all this fight work to do, which she has to learn both sides, it was hard, but she was there 100% and did it. And so all that stuff is a combination of, some of it is Amandla with her stunt double or Amandla with her acting double, or maybe the two stunt doubles with the face replacement, and for that exact moment, I think because of the height the legs had to get, I think that it’s probably just using the stunt doubles at that point. Then the genius edit idea actually came when we were doing our post-pre-vis. I don’t know if it was Chris or Mark, but that was an idea that was brought to me at that time, which I thought was great, and said, “We gotta do that.”
It’s such a great moment, and you’re right, Amandla does such great work in both episodes, especially in the finale, because there are so many extremes. You have the moment with Sol and Osha where she’s killing him, and I’m curious about the setup for that shot because that’s another shot in the finale that I constantly think about. The framing is just so good. There’s so much tension between The Stranger watching and Mae watching and just bringing Sol to his knees.
CULPEPPER: That was another place where I definitely wanted to feel her hand and him in the same frame. He was giving so much, too, and choking is a very hard thing to do. I mean, it physically can hurt. It’s not easy, and he did it again and again and again and again. For that, it was important to me again, he was just giving so much emotion and so much regret and love and guilt. There was no way that I wanted to cut away from that until I had to, so that’s why I framed it that way.
It looks so beautiful. There are so many great moments and I do think the audiences forget just how many hours and how many takes go into these very small moments in an episode. What’s next for you? I know we’re all waiting for The Acolyte Season 2 to get greenlit. I check every day, but what’s next for you?
CULPEPPER: Next, I just finished doing Paradise City; it’s Dan Fogelman’s new show on Hulu, which I think is supposed to be out next year. Then Anansi Boys, which is based on Neil Gaiman’s book, which will be on Amazon. It’s going to be released later on this year.
I’m very excited for that one.
CULPEPPER: I’m excited to see everybody’s reactions to finally seeing that book on screen.